Is Donald Trump’s attack on government norms why Mike DeWine wants more civics taught in schools? Today in Ohio

CLEVELAND, Ohio - In his penultimate state of the state address, Gov. Mike DeWine pushed for more focus on social studies in elementary school.

Why? Since social studies are already part of the public school curriculum, what is DeWine hoping for? We’re contemplating on Today in Ohio.

Listen online here.

Editor Chris Quinn hosts our daily half-hour news podcast, with editorial board member Lisa Garvin, impact editor Leila Atassi and content director Laura Johnston.

You’ve been sending Chris lots of thoughts and suggestions on our from-the-newsroom text account, in which he shares what we’re thinking about at cleveland.com. You can sign up here: https://joinsubtext.com/chrisquinn.

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Here‘s what we’re asking about today:

Mike DeWine gave his penultimate State of the State address Wednesday, and while he did not say a whole that was new, it was what he emphasized that was interesting. First, what were his thoughts in the area of teaching reading?

Next, he’s on a mission to stop cellphones from interfering with the school day. What did he say about that?

Finally, he has a new role for Lt. Gov. Jim Tressel. What is it?

Before we go to another topic, did he drill down on his stadium financing proposal?

Donald Trump wants to kill the U.S. Department of Education because, well, he’s Donald Trump. What use does he have for educated people. How did Cleveland feel the true impact of Trump’s push this week?

In another ramification from Washington, how is Cleveland’s Office of Equal Opportunity — created in 1977 to make sure city contracts included minority-owned, female-owned and small businesses — making big changes this year?

Ohio’s is where our species’ leap to the skies took root, through the Wright Brothers, so would it make sense for NASA to be headquartered here? Who’s pushing that narrative?

What are a couple of Ohio state reps proposing that could have the affect of killing a big part of the porn industry in Ohio, which would keep kids away from it?

Infant mortality remains a devastating and vexing problem in Cleveland, but statewide, has there been improvement?

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Read the automated transcript below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it contains many errors and misspellings.

Chris Quinn (00:01.036)

Having a hard time getting started this morning because before I could hit the record button, the conversation was hot and heavy about our first topic. It’s Today in Ohio, the news podcast discussion from Cleveland.com and The Plain Dealer. I’m Chris Quinn here with Lisa Garvin, Leila Tasi and Laura Johnston. Lisa, you’re up. Mike DeWine gave his penultimate State of the State address Wednesday. And while he did not say a whole lot that was new, almost nothing that was new,

It was what he emphasized that was interesting. First, what were his thoughts in the area of teaching reading?

Lisa (00:38.833)

So of course we know that he’s fully behind the science of reading, which he’s trying to implement across the Ohio. But now he’s proposed $1.5 million for combining social studies and language arts into a single integrated curriculum. The $1 million would be spent starting the fiscal year on July 1st to develop this integrated curriculum, $500,000 for the second year to train teachers how to teach this. So they would use

geography, history, and civics to help teach reading and writing skills. Teachers have told him, he said, that not enough kids are exposed to sufficient social studies content, especially in elementary school, and this program would have a deliberate focus. So the Ohio Department of Education and Workforce will work with a national expert or state university centers to develop this program.

The last legislature did fund civics institutes at five Ohio universities. I’m assuming these would be a resource for them. Also, they want to teach more Ohio history in younger grades from kindergarten onward and said that students get most of their Ohio history in the fourth grade. And a big question though that some reporters had is will this program cover private and charter schools as well as public schools?

Chris Quinn (01:53.59)

Okay, so Leila and Laura, whose kids are in the schools, are going to have a lot to say in a minute. I was confused by this because my frame of reference from school, both elementary and high school years, was we got a huge dose of history in social studies, world history, US history, all sorts of things. So I was taken aback. And in my morning note, I put the question out there, has that dropped off at school? Is that why he’s talking about it? Why would the governor feel a need

to focus on this and like I said before I could hit the record button, Leila was on me saying no no no no that’s completely wrong Leila take it away.

Leila (02:31.253)

Well, I just believe that public school kids get an incredible education in history and social studies starting earlier and going deeper than many of us remember from our own childhoods. And I’ve seen this firsthand. My kids are in seventh and fifth grade and they have come home from elementary school spouting facts about ancient Mesopotamia.

and debating the legacy of Julius Caesar and explaining the roots of democracy in Athens. And they did learn a lot about Ohio history during those blocks of their curriculum. So I think it’s a complete falsehood. And I don’t know why he would go so deep on this issue in his speech because that’s untrue unless it’s just that

He and the Republicans feel like it’s not the right kind of, know, they’re trying to push for the basic documents to be taught, which is such a lame argument to make.

Chris Quinn (03:39.074)

Well, Jerry Serino, he has a big college bill that base is predicated on the fact that kids come to college and they don’t know anything about history and he wants them to be forced into remediation, which is dumb because they’re paying to be there. They’re paying there for an education that they’re trying to design and focus and cramming that kind of stuff down their throats. They just won’t go in in in Ohio schools. So I thought maybe he’s doing that, but I just

There wasn’t really nothing else new in his speech. Everything else he talked about, he’s talked about before, but he felt such a need for better history and social studies education that he made it a focus of his speech. So I just, why? And I don’t think we have a good answer. If what you’re saying is true and what Laura, her experience has been with her kids who are getting advanced in the schools, what is the need for this? I don’t get it.

Laura (04:34.748)

Can I chime in here? So I agree with Layla completely. And I went all through public school in Ohio and fourth grade has always been the Ohio history year. It still is. And so I’m not seeing a huge difference between what my kids learned and what I learned. I actually think that the Hamilton musical made kids a lot more interested in history and actually inspired a whole lot of people on YouTube to come up with their own raps about.

things like Mesopotamia and made it a lot more fun for kids because they do, I mean, my kids really like history. They love the study, the stories, and I’m a huge history buff. So our spring breaks and vacations always include that. But Layla and I are coming from school systems that are recognized as well-performing. So I can’t speak for every kid in every school in Ohio. My question here is, is this

a pushback very subtly of saying, you know, when you understand your history, you won’t be doomed to repeat it? Are we hoping that kids learn something about civics so that they can take more part in democracy and we don’t have a whole bunch of sheep in Ohio? These are questions I have because I haven’t even seen when, you know, people push back against woke learning or whatever. I haven’t even seen that in the schools. I think the teachers are teaching similar.

Chris Quinn (05:47.555)

Yeah.

Lisa (05:55.963)

similar stories to what I.

Laura (05:56.996)

stories to what I grew up with.

Chris Quinn (05:59.498)

That’s an interesting thought because Mike DeWine is not the Trumpy Republican. He’s the old fashioned Republican who has actually stood for a lot of principles. He’s done some stuff that you just flat out don’t understand with the utilities commission and things like that. but he is a guy that believes in the American way, which is dissolving as we speak in Washington and maybe.

Laura (06:05.063)

Right.

Chris Quinn (06:23.084)

Maybe that is his goal. Look, history is also way to get kids engaged, right? Because it’s storytelling. I mean, I loved history, unlike a lot of other stuff, chemistry and things, because it was about the stories. And if you love storytelling, history is the one place in school you get it. Every era is another set of stories. And it’s a way to engage the kids. You got plot, you got character. If you have a dynamic teacher, and it all depends on that, you can make that a great, great

Laura (06:28.423)

Mm-hmm.

Laura (06:48.88)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lisa (06:48.913)

It does.

Chris Quinn (06:52.056)

class. could look forward to going to it because there’s a lot of adventure in it. And maybe maybe he thinks that’ll help them read more if there’s more history lessons in front of them. It’s just strange. I wish he would have said it. I wish he would have said I see a greater need for people to understand civics so that we remain true to who we are as a nation. If you’re right, Laura or or or if it’s that. Go ahead, Lisa.

Lisa (07:15.855)

Well, no, I was just going to say, I think Laura’s and Layla’s kids go to really good schools. think there are other schools that are struggling, you know, to get their, their grade averages up and they’re teaching to the standardized tests, you know, so they’re probably not getting a full, you know, scope of history or civics.

Laura (07:36.198)

And the thing is, social studies includes its geography, right? It includes the study of other countries and knowing where things are in the world. And I would say Americans as a whole are pretty bad at geography. I mean, to be fair, it’s good to know things about other cultures. I applaud this. And one of my kids' teachers, two of them, the language arts and social studies, work together and they read Johnny Tremaine.

Lisa (07:41.019)

Correct.

Lisa (07:47.643)

Bad.

Chris Quinn (07:47.99)

Okay, Miss Canadian, I get it, I get it, we’re a bunch of clowns.

Laura (08:03.718)

together in middle school. So this idea of reading history is a natural fit. And maybe that’s just some more teacher training to make it more dynamic.

Leila (08:14.185)

Also, I feel like if the problem is what, as Lisa was describing it, that there are districts that are struggling to meet the benchmarks and have to teach to the standardized tests, let’s work on that. Let’s solve that problem for them so they have more freedom to spend time being the dynamic teachers that kids need to absorb these histories or these history and geography and social studies lessons in a way that shapes them for years.

Chris Quinn (08:14.606)

All right.

Lisa (08:27.003)

Mm-hmm.

Leila (08:44.033)

That’s the problem.

Chris Quinn (08:46.926)

Okay, good discussion. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. Next, the governor is on a mission to stop cell phones from interfering with all that teaching that we’re talking about. Laura, what did he say about that this time?

Laura (08:59.644)

He said the same thing he said last year. He wants legislators to pass the law to block cell phones from students' hands during school hours. And what happened last year is they passed this watered down version unanimously that required schools to develop a phone policy to, quote, emphasize that phone use be as limited as possible during school hours and reduce phone distraction in school settings. But it’s up to the schools to figure out how they’ve done that. And we’ve done a couple stories on this.

We’ve seen some schools very strict approach. We’ve seen them put those in those specialized bags. But there are other schools that are basically like it’s up to the teacher what they want to do with these. I’ve heard stories of teachers collecting cell phones at the beginning of class, but some kids have like fake cell phones or ones that don’t work. They’ll put those in the bag instead and then still have their own cell phone. I hear stories and my kid is going to high school next year because the middle school is phone free. They stay in their lockers all day.

but the high school, use them and no one talks to each other at lunch. There are no raucous conversations back and forth at the lunch table because everybody’s scrolling. And to me, that sounds like the worst way to spend high school.

Chris Quinn (10:06.732)

Alright, well, hopefully he’ll get his law passed, but this legislature does not really go the way he wants them to.

Lisa (10:08.369)

you

Laura (10:12.626)

He did get a standing ovation when he mentioned this, which is more than you can say about some of his other things. So maybe people are looking at this. This is evolving. The science is still evolving. We know that kids get addicted to cell phones and screen times. We know it’s bad for their self-esteem. It adds to depression. There’s all sorts of terrible things that come along with being on your phone too much. And so if we care about these kids and we care about learning, Jerry Serino, let’s get the cell phones out of their hands.

Lisa (10:18.897)

Maybe people are looking at this as evolving. Science is still evolving. know that kids get addicted to cell phones at the same time. We know it’s bad for their self-esteem. It adds to depression. There’s all sorts of terrible things that come along with being on your phone too much. And so we care about these kids. And we care about learning. Here’s to Reno. Let’s get the cell phones out of their hands.

Chris Quinn (10:41.102)

You’re listening to Today in Ohio. Mike DeWine surprised everybody when he named Jim Trestle the Lieutenant Governor and in his speech, he more fully defined the role that Trestle will fill. What is it, Leila?

Leila (10:56.107)

Well, DeWine has now tapped him to lead something called Ohio’s Workforce Playbook. Basically, it’s an effort to figure out what skills and training Ohioans need to land good jobs and how the state can help clear those barriers that keep people from getting hired. And what’s kind of cool about this is that it’s not a one-size-fits-all plan. Trestle’s job is to look at different regions across Ohio and tailor strategies that make sense for each area. And that could be working with colleges or

queer tech schools or businesses or state agencies. And DeWine was pretty clear on why he picked Trussell. He says that this guy knows education. He ran Youngstown State University for nearly a decade. He knows workforce issues and obviously he knows the state of Ohio. Some folks are comparing this to the role that John Husted used to have before he left the administration to fill JD Vance’s US Senate seat. So there’s a bit of a baton pass going on.

And this isn’t the only thing that’s on Trussell’s plate. DeWine also wants him to lead a statewide push to promote fitness in Ohio schools. So no details on that yet, but apparently there’s more to come there.

Chris Quinn (12:01.71)

So maybe they’ll do jumping jacks while they’re learning to read by studying history. That’s the new classroom environment that Mike DeWine envisions in Ohio.

Leila (12:06.049)

No.

Laura (12:10.883)

Multitasking.

Chris Quinn (12:13.466)

but not on your phone. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. Before we go on to another topic beyond the speech, Laura, did he drill down on his stadium financing proposal?

Laura (12:14.96)

Yeah, right now you’re following exactly.

Laura (12:27.058)

Yes, he definitely hasn’t changed his mind on this, though it got only lukewarm applause from lawmakers, which unlike the cell phone thing. So this is the proposal to double the state’s tax on sports gambling to pay for stadium projects like the Browns covered stadium in Brook Park would also go to youth sports. He didn’t really go into a lot of detail, as far as I know, and he didn’t add anything new to the conversation. But the plan was to raise the state tax on sports gambling gross revenues from 20 percent to 40 percent.

that would generate an estimated $288 million over the next two fiscal years for those stadium projects and youth sports. And a commission, which would be appointed by the governor as well as Republican and Democratic lawmakers, would have the power to decide who gets a share of that funding.

Chris Quinn (13:14.08)

Yeah. And like you said, they gave them a lukewarm response because they’re just such buffoons. This is a great idea. I should say we discussed yesterday, D and Jimmy Haslam, the Browns owners, sweetened their offer on getting help with a state loan to build their covered stadium. They believe that the money generated there would pay it back. But to soothe anybody’s anxiety, they offered to put up $38 million of their own money to cover the shortfall. And we wondered

Laura (13:24.454)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Quinn (13:43.724)

What was it about that number? Our state house editor got back to me yesterday, because he’s regular listener, and said that that amount of money, when put into the pot now, would grow over the life of the loan, and then would be able to cover the shortfalls, that the formula for the 30 years of interest or whatever it is, when you apply that to that number, it makes the state whole. So they are in effect guaranteeing

Laura (13:46.012)

Hehe.

Chris Quinn (14:12.958)

no taxpayer liability or potential liability. So thanks Rick Ron for sending me that email. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. Donald Trump wants to kill the US Department of Education because well, he’s Donald Trump. What use does he have for educated people? Certainly doesn’t have them in his cabinet. How did Cleveland feel the true impact of that push this week, Lisa?

Lisa (14:25.361)

you

Lisa (14:38.671)

Yeah, the regional U.S. Education Office in Cleveland will be shut down. They got the news via an unsigned email this week. The workers there are part of a nationwide reduction in force in the Education Office of 1,950 workers. It’s unknown exactly how many are in Cleveland. 600 nationwide have accepted voluntary resignations or retirements, and the remaining people in the U.S. Department of Education offices will go on administrative leave starting next week.

The Cleveland office housed the Office of Civil Rights and they handled, you know, those kind of violations. But the number of offices is being cut from 12 to 5. Ohio Federation of Teachers President Melissa Cropper says, you know, our access to critical funds is at risk. Ohio gets $1.3 billion a year from the U.S. Education Department.

She said that she worries it plans to give states block grants instead of funding specific programs will remove accountability for that money. And she said, unless in a snarky little comment, she said, unless the Trump administration even sends monies to states and instead uses it to pay for his $4.5 trillion tax cut.

Chris Quinn (15:51.418)

The sad thing about this is this office wasn’t created for no reason. It was created because there were abuses. There were problems in the way people were being educated across the country. And this was the guardian. This was the office that safeguarded children, made sure everybody had equal access. And you won’t see an immediate effect of this. But five years from now, what might the effect be when the guardrails are gone?

Lisa (16:20.859)

And we didn’t get a whole lot of information from the director of ODEW, Steve Dakin. Reporters asked him at an event how he’s going to work with the national agency and how Ohio will be affected by the layoffs. says, and his spokeswoman jumped in and says, just send us your questions. We’ll get back to you. Well, we sent him the questions and they didn’t get back to us yet.

Chris Quinn (16:39.516)

Hahaha

Nobody’s getting back to anybody in this administration and this Congress. Other Chantel Brown wrote a letter to the editor today to say, Hey, look, the Republicans aren’t getting back, but I’m getting back. I’ve been very accessible. We should point that out. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. In another big ramification from what’s happening in Washington, Laila, how is Cleveland’s office of equal opportunity created in 1977 to make sure city contracts included minority owned and

female-owned businesses making big changes this year.

Leila (17:15.233)

It’s all tied to the ripple effects that we’re seeing from Washington. And in this case, especially the US Supreme Court’s decision last year that struck down affirmative action in college admissions. That, along with the broader attacks on diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts under Trump, that has all got Cleveland rethinking how it runs these programs. So the city’s Office of Equal Opportunity Director Tyson Mitchell told city council recently that they’re going to have to

make their goals more race and gender neutral. He didn’t really get into a ton of specifics. He said there’s more to come on that, but he did say the changes will be fundamental. And that’s raised a lot of concern from council members who feel that these programs were set up to fix the damage caused by years of discrimination, especially against black owned businesses in Cleveland. Councilwoman Stephanie House Jones was pretty blunt about it. She said that this is a fight worth fighting, even if it means Cleveland ends up in court to defend its programs.

Council President Blaine Griffin echoed that feeling. He said that the city still needs to make sure its investments benefit Clevelanders, whether they call it DEI or not. And just last year, the council passed a new community benefits law. It requires big developers who get city incentives to give something back. And that could mean hiring more minority-owned firms or building parks or contributing to Cleveland’s Community Equity Fund.

Mitchell said that those kinds of benefits are less likely to be challenged because they’re more neutral on paper, but the concern is definitely there still. And at the end of the day, Griffin says tomato, tomato, doesn’t matter what you call it, the goal stays the same. We have to make sure Cleveland residents get a real turn on the city’s investment. Yeah.

Chris Quinn (18:57.998)

The challenge they face is this administration has a laser like focus on this and anything that can be interpreted in any way is favoring somebody based on gender or race or anything else. They’re coming after. They’re going to take the money away and Cleveland gets a lot of money from the federal government. And what they’re saying is we’re going to figure out a way to do this no matter what.

Leila (19:04.661)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Quinn (19:25.966)

But I don’t know that they’re going to be able to pull it off. The administration and the Supreme Court has started to say, no more. What existed in the past is over. Everybody must be treated equally. And if the city does anything that doesn’t treat everybody equally, the feds are going to take their money away. I salute them for what they’re trying to do. But I don’t think you can jump this hurdle.

Leila (19:44.5)

Yeah, you know...

Leila (19:50.473)

It’s really hard to fathom how the office of equal opportunity could be redesigned to be race and gender neutral without losing sight of why the office was created in the first place. I the whole point was to level the playing field for those who had been historically shut out of city contracts and opportunities. I just don’t see how race and gender can no longer be central factors in how those programs are enforced. I mean, how do you address inequity without being able to name it?

Chris Quinn (20:02.562)

Right.

Leila (20:19.125)

without being able to target the communities that were and in many ways still are most affected. I just don’t think this is gonna work.

Chris Quinn (20:26.446)

Unless you specifically say, and the state is trying to outlaw this, or if it hasn’t already, that we want 30 % of the money in any of our contracts to go to a Cleveland-owned firm. I mean, that is, I’m trying to make sure the money stays in our city. We spend a lot of money, we need to invest in our city, and that is neutral on every other area.

Leila (20:39.969)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Quinn (20:52.314)

I don’t know how the administration could argue that that’s favoring somebody based on any of the elements that they’re against. The state doesn’t like that because there are a bunch of firms that aren’t in Cleveland that buy off legislators to say, want Cleveland’s money. Cleveland awards a lot of contracts and these out of city firms want them. So of course the legislature, which gets bought and paid for by anybody with deep pockets,

passes laws that limit what Cleveland can do, but that may be the only path forward.

Leila (21:27.733)

Yeah, I community benefits agreements are really important tools, but I just don’t think they would go far enough to create meaningful opportunities for black owned and women owned businesses the way the original program intended. So like you said, Cleveland is really being forced to walk a fine line. They’re trying to comply with these changing legal standards while also still holding onto the spirit of equity and inclusion that the programs were built on. that is a very difficult situation to be in.

Chris Quinn (21:56.792)

But salute them for standing on principle. We talked about it in the budget. They created an LGBTQ plus liaison in the face of what’s going on in Washington. That takes guts because you are putting money, you’re putting principles ahead of money, which is noble. wish more people and more institutions in America would do that. So I appreciate what they’re trying to do. I just think they have a hard path. You’re listening to Today in Ohio.

Leila (22:07.529)

Right. Does.

Chris Quinn (22:27.286)

Ohio is where our species leap to the skies took root through the Wright brothers, so Lisa would it make sense for NASA, which takes us to the stars, to be headquartered here and who’s pushing that narrative?

Lisa (22:39.173)

Well, at least 13 Ohio Congress members believe that our state is the best place to have that NASA headquarters. sent a letter to NASA administrator Jared Isaacman and Vice President JD Vance. The letter was headed by Republican, Iraqi River representative, Max Miller and Senator John Husted. They said that, you know, they want NASA to come here when the lease on its DC headquarters expires in 2028.

They say, as you said, Ohio has a rich aerospace heritage. They have a central role in national tech and defense sectors and lower operational costs.

So they’re offering NASA Glenn Research Center at Hopkins Airport as their potential site for the new headquarters. And they say that Glenn and the adjacent Lewis Field has extensive office space and opportunities for redevelopment. And it would save taxpayers money. They wouldn’t have to build anything new really. And there would be direct access to R &D resources and infrastructure if it’s there at NASA Glenn.

Among the people who signed this letter, Senator Bernie Moreno, Congressman Jim Jordan, Dave Joyce, Bob Lotta, I’m not seeing a whole lot of Democratic names here, Marcy Capter also signed, but Florida and Texas, who both have large NASA installations, are also competing for this.

Chris Quinn (23:55.052)

Well, but the benefit we’d have is right across the highway, we’re going to have a covered football stadium. They could go to the Browns games. A ready-made audience for the Browns proposal. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. What are a couple of Ohio State reps proposing that could have the effect of killing a big part of the porn industry in Ohio and would keep kids away from it? Laura.

Lisa (23:58.865)

And in a lifestyle center.

Laura (24:23.356)

So state representatives, Steven Demetrio from Geauga County and Josh Williams from Toledo want to force porn websites to acquire photo IDs or similar means to verify their viewers age. Similar legislation in other states has actually made porn companies cut off service to those states. They’re arguing that this is not a good idea to have it up to the companies, that they should actually have it with the providers of the internet so that it goes across sites, which

does make a lot of sense because this is kind of a piecemeal response. I mean, I don’t want kids to see porn at all. I’m all for protecting children on the internet. This is a difficult way to do it maybe, but two dozen house lawmakers have signed on as cosponsors and Opponents say, hey, this is stifling free speech.

Chris Quinn (25:12.578)

I don’t know if you can ever put that genie back in the bottle because porn is everywhere. it also, there have been studies that show it is completely skewing what kids think about sex and relationships and things like that, which is really bad for the future. But can you ever stop with the internet? Can you ever stop kids from getting access to this now at this point?

Laura (25:23.249)

Mm-hmm.

Laura (25:41.254)

I mean, we’re talking about specific porn websites. I think probably you can run into porn anywhere on the internet, like accidentally, right? You’re not just subscribing to porn websites. That’s the only place that you can see them. I agree that kids should not be seeing this. Kids should not be seeing a lot of the things that they see on the internet. So I think there’s probably a better way to do this. And that would be something with giving access from the internet perspective.

But it is really hard to rein in any of these tech companies.

Chris Quinn (26:12.566)

Well, what would be smart is the porn industry has been one of the leaders in technical innovation from streaming on down because they make lots of money on it. If they were to come up with some sort of solution, they’re innovative, they’re thoughtful, there’s a lot of money at stake, and they really ought to be blocking kids from seeing it. There should be some sort of standard by which only adults see it. You’re never going to get away from the supply demand problem. There’s a huge demand for porn.

Laura (26:22.332)

Mm-hmm.

Laura (26:32.274)

Mm-hmm.

Chris Quinn (26:41.812)

obviously, it’s a giant part of the internet. So people are going to figure out a way to find it. And I, it would be so good for the porn industry to be the ones that found the solution and then go to the legislators and say, look, there’s no need to be as ham handed as you are. Here’s how we’re going to do it and make it real. So far, nothing. You’re listening to Today in Ohio.

Laila, infant mortality remains a devastating and quite vexing problem in Cleveland. We are unable to make strides. It’s actually gotten worse despite all the money we’ve thrown out of it. But statewide, has there been improvement?

Leila (27:19.743)

Yeah, there has been thankfully. Ohio’s infant mortality rate has dropped to its lowest point in 20 years. Preliminary numbers show 6.5 infant deaths per thousand live births in 2024. To put that in perspective, that’s about 80 more babies who will live to see their first birthday. And for the first time since Dewine took office, we’re seeing a statistically significant drop in those mortality rates. Now, Ohio has been grappling with this problem for years, especially when it comes to black babies.

In 2022 and 23, the death rate for black infants was nearly 14 per 1000 births in Ohio. And when you compare that to white infants, those mortality rates for white infants are much closer to the national average. And in places like Cuyahoga County, as you said, black babies are three times more likely to die before their first birthday. But Cincinnati has been kind of a bright spot in this discussion. Hamilton County has managed to cut its infant mortality rate to 5.5.

And that’s thanks in large part to a nonprofit called Cradle Cincinnati. Their approach flipped the script on traditional interventions. Instead of lecturing moms about things like co-sleeping, they asked why families made the choices that they did that sometimes led to these devastating outcomes. And the answer was often exhaustion. So Cradle Cincinnati stepped in to help. They started offering support like cooking, cleaning, or just holding the baby so moms could get a break.

And they also created spaces for moms to connect and work with hospitals to rethink their protocols. And it has really worked. So now the state wants to take that model and scale it up across Ohio.

Chris Quinn (28:56.364)

You’d think given all the time and energy we’ve put into this in Cleveland that we would have tuned into this success a while ago and tried to bring it here. Is there any sign that Cleveland has tried to learn from this model?

Leila (29:11.745)

You know, I certainly hope so. I, I’m actually really troubled that we are just getting to the point where we’re realizing that exhaustion drives parents to do these things like co-sleeping and that helping, you know, providing some support is what the answer is. mean, I could have told you that for free that new parents, especially moms are exhausted. Anyone who’s been there.

Chris Quinn (29:31.79)

hahahaha

Leila (29:38.751)

or who supported someone through those early months knows how relentless and overwhelming it could be, especially if you’re doing it with limited resources and under constant stress. So of course, moms are bringing their babies into their beds. They’re desperate for sleep.

Laura (29:54.45)

Doesn’t this speak to how you do need a village to raise kids? You cannot do it only in your nuclear family. It is too much to ask. It goes to all the things we talk about, whether we’re talking about juvenile justice or childcare, that we really as a society need to understand that kids are our future. They are important to all of us, and we all need to help out.

Leila (30:16.373)

Well, and also, you know, when they send you home from the hospital, they gave you that giant binder or folder full of flyers that just lecture you about don’t shake your baby, don’t sleep with your baby, don’t, and who’s going to sit down and read that stuff or think of that flyer when they’re exhausted and really near the brink of psychosis when you are that sleep deprived. So yes, please.

Call, send someone to your house to help you when you’re under that kind of desperate circumstance. And you will see more babies make it to their first birthday.

Laura (30:51.388)

countries build this in, right? They have people who come visit you at your home and just check on you and make sure you’re doing okay. Like you don’t even have to ask for the help. They just show up. It’s part of the system. And while we do have some programs like that for specific populations, it would be nice for everyone because everyone struggles and don’t forget all the postpartum issues, right? Like you mentioned, like even if you are totally fine and dealing okay, it’s exhausting. If you have any kind of mental

Leila (31:12.395)

Absolutely.

Laura (31:21.604)

issues and health problems after you have a baby, which are very common. Like you’re not thinking clearly.

Chris Quinn (31:27.468)

All right. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. Lisa, Laila, Laura, thank you for the dynamic conversation. Great podcast episode. Thanks everybody who listens to Today in Ohio. We’ll be back Friday to wrap up a week of news.